– Greetings (chuckles) travelers, and welcome to Tales From the Closet, the only podcast slash
vodcast with me on it. (laughing) Welcome, everybody. If you’re watching this on CH2 online, or you’re listening to it as a podcast, just know that there’s
also a video component where you could see our gorgeous faces. I have three lovely guests today. – I hate those candles. – (laughs) Excuse me.
– I hate that you’re doing it again. I hate that you’re still doing it. – I’m gonna add once candle per episode. Get ready for this season, honey. Great, let’s hop right into it. Let’s meet our contestants. – Contestants?
– Oh, we’re competing. – It’s a game show.
– Yeah it’s a blood sport.
– Ooh, good. – Let’s start with you, Jordan. I’m so happy that you’re here. – I’m happy to be here, Ally. Are you gay? – I am gay. – Cool, me too.
– I am. – Everyone here? – Yeah, oh yeah.
– I am, yeah, let’s do that.
– Yeah. – I’m non-binary, go by they, them. – Oh.
– I’m into women, at this point. I don’t know, but if I put
on a nice enough sweater, I can be bi, nevermind. (laughing) That joke got away from me, but I will double down.
– No, bi people famously wear sweaters.
– Wear only sweaters. They’re like, excuse me I
am bi and my car’s here, I have to go. (laughing) – In a big hurry, bi people are always doing something great.
– Uber! – Well, they’re very busy. They have to fuck both men and women.
– It’s true, it’s true. It takes a lot of time.
– That’s like double the time. – Gorgeous. – Yeah. – Yeah, great. So how do you identify, Jordan? – I identify as an artist first. (laughs) – Right, artist first. – No, I’m a he. – Great. – Traditional white gay. – Mm.
– Yeah. – There it is. – [Grant] You’re the problem. – I am the problem and I will
continue to be the problem. I fucking love being the problem. (laughs) No, I’m very cis. I like guys, yeah. – There it is. – Say more about that. What’s it like to be cis? (laughs) – It’s honestly exhilarating. Everyday I wake up.
(laughing) And I’m like, I’m gonna walk in the world and people are going to
know exactly who I am. – No questions.
– There are no questions. They’re gonna be like, that’s a guy. – Yeah, and kids–
– And I love it. – No kids are gonna say, what are you? Loudly in the grocery store. – Kids just welcome me into their arms. – Great!
– They say, I understand you. You make sense to me. I accept you. – And then you can recruit them. So it’s fantastic.
– Yeah, I’m living with about 60 children right now, who are all so, so sweet. (laughs) You should, guys, come by any time. – I don’t want to come by. – No! You guys–
– You have to. You do have to.
– It’ll be really, we have a good time over there. – Great, and what do you do for work? What do you guys? – I am a filmmaker and writer, and sometimes actor. – Ooh? – But yeah, I’m very just successful. (laughs)
And rich. – Great. – What’s that like? (laughs) – Honestly, that has been a struggle. – I would imagine.
– A lot of people don’t understand me when
they see my bank account. (laughing)
And they’re just like, I could never relate to that. And I say, you shouldn’t
have to, and you never will. – And you never will! – And I’m looking at you!
– And you’re only looking at me!
– I’m looking at you! – And I do understand. – Right now.
– I did pay for a bell pepper in dimes once. I did.
– I love that! – Oh boy.
– And it was a great lunch. Moving on, Kimia– – [Kimia] You ate just a bell pepper? – I bit into it like an apple in my car listening to David Sedaris. That’s how you get
through things like that. – Great.
– You listen to David Sedaris while at a personal low.
– Did you guys used to cut off the tops.
– Sure. – And fill it with water
and use it as a cup? – No. – That was my family was obsessed with that.
– No! A pepper cup? – Oh, we would do that and just laugh and laugh and laugh. – I would put like a
grape cocktail in that. That sounds like a really fun–
– Ooh, like a Blood Mary or something.
– Ooh, something spicy. – Yeah, Bloody Mary served out of a bell pepper.
– Yeah, that’s good. Savory cocktails for me is a no, but I could do Bloody Mary.
– Like a martini or like a no? It tastes like a sandwich?
– I don’t like, yeah, I don’t like a dry martini. Anyway. – Anyway, it’s me.
(laughing) Hey there! Anyway, hi, I’m Kimia. I guess this is all
gonna be less interesting than Jordan, but I am… I don’t know, he just went so big. – Nothing’s more interesting than a white gay guy!
– I really don’t know what to do. Well, I guess, if we’re there–
– We go big or go home. – I guess so. I am a girl, she, and I guess
I’ve been using the word queer because, honestly, I’ve
only ever dated one woman and ever for a long time. It’s my best friend, we were
best friends and it got weird. So, it’s just like… I think this is just
where I’ll be forever. So, as far as I know,
I like this one person. That’s it!
– Wait, and you’re still dating her? – [Kimia] Yes! – Oh my god, I love that!
– That’s great! I love that!
– Childhood best friends? – So–
– No, not childhood. Well, I guess is high school childhood? – [Group] Yeah! – We weren’t dating in high school, but I have known her since then. – Wow! – So, your sexual orientation is her? – I guess so!
– Aww! (laughing) – I love this.
– Oh gosh. – I’m going to melt.
– Stop awing at me. You guys! – Grant starts crying. – Alright.
(laughing) – What if I do? Oh god! – I’ve worked with Grant enough to know that it’s not impossible
for him to start crying at any point. (laughing)
– Oh, we’ll get him today then, I guess. – What’s it like to not be alone? – Oh, you know what, I don’t… Well, I guess I spend
most of my days alone. So, I still know what
it’s like to be alone. (laughing) But I guess there’s always
somebody that I could talk to. (light playful screams) Brag, brag, brag! It’s nice.
– Yeah, I couldn’t imagine what it’s like for you. – It’s really hard. The nights are terrible. – [Jordan] They feel real super long? – And it’s so cold in my
apartment when I wake up and I have nothing to
hold to warm myself up. – Can I tell a quick little anecdote? – Please.
– Yeah. This is the podcast for that. – I woke up the other night
to my boyfriend literally going like that, just
stroking my face like that. And then I nudge and I woke him up. So, he was doing that in his sleep. – What? – And then he was like, what? What’s going on? And I was like, you’re stroking my face. (laughing) And he was like, oh I
thought, I didn’t know, sorry. – I woke up–
– That’s what it’s like to be in a relationship.
– My body pillow wasn’t where I thought it would be, and it broke my heart.
– Oh, yeah, definitely.
– ‘Cause I’m so fragile. – It moved away?
– Let me just say, it’s not actually that great
to share a bed with someone every night.
– Oh, it’s a nightmare. – For the rest of your life. – To be touched, to be touched. (laughing) At all. – I legit love being single, so. Everything I was just saying was an act. I can’t get enough being single.
– I like to be in a relationship, but
I do like to have nights where I am sleeping like a
full starfish in the bed. And that’s just like, I
should be able to do that multiple times a week. But you can’t.
– When you’re in a relationship and you
don’t wanna be touched, and your lover touches
you, you have to pretend like it’s okay.
– Like it’s nice? – Because if you don’t, then it turns into a problem.
– No, no you don’t! – No you don’t! Just say, not right now. Thank you, I’m okay. – In mine, if I’m like, I
just don’t want you to touch me right now, that’s like–
– That you have sensitive lovers.
– We’re gonna fight. We’re gonna fight that night.
– I guess I’ve been there too where it’s like, is it something I, and you’re like, no I truly just wanna watch Netflix untouched, but naked. So, figure that out. (laughing) – Now, you know what? It’ll get to the sex stuff
here in a little bit, we don’t need to do it.
– Yeah, it always does. This is… Yeah, and anyway, who are you? I’m sorry, did you need parking or? – I would actually love
it if you could validate. That would really help
me out a little bit. – Ma’am, there’s an
ambulance waiting downstairs for you actually right now. – I have to go, I’m needed. I’m Grant O’Brien, still. I identify as bi, I identify as he, him. I’ve, boy, this is the same
old song and dance, isn’t it? We have been through this. I am gonna run out of things to say on this podcast.
– Something new! Just switch it up! I mean, don’t lie, but
just tell us a new thing about yourself. What did you listen to in
your car on the way here? – Oh yeah.
– I’m gonna show you. – Really? – I’m gonna show you because
it really is, I think, important for this podcast
that everyone knows that I was listening to
the original recording of the musical Chicago. (laughing)
Not the– – So, Chita? – Yeah, Chita Rivera,
Jerry Orbach, Gwen Verdon because I’m very excited there’s a show about Bob Fosse–
– Verdon, Verdon. Verdon. – Are you and I gonna have a problem? (laughing)
Is this gonna be? – I wanted to use this platform to talk about gay male competition. (laughing) – It is. It is strong. No, I was singing Chicago
in my car all the way in. – Nice.
– That’s very cute, and I do love that.
– I’m on the right podcast. – You are, truly, and you’re welcome here, okay?
– Will you give us a little taste? – Yeah. – Yeah, had fun. Oh no! No, I can’t, we cannot get the rights to that.
– Oh, okay! (laughing)
– Oh, yeah, yeah, no. – Just sing it with different lyrics. (laughing) – Here’s the notes–
– I’m gonna improvise a Chicago parody right now. Fair use. – Okay, great, we are going
to move into our very first segment of the show,
which is its namesake, Tales From the Closet! (thunder roaring) I love it. Thank you all, again, for joining us here.
– I hate it. – In this empty Party City. I wanted to, honestly, I really
did want to have this show take place in the back of
a Halloween superstore. But we weren’t able to do that. So, instead, our beautiful
art director Rick made this, and I’m very happy with it. – Rick is very handsome. – Rick is gorgeous! – Is he in the room? – No.
– No. Why? Who did you think he
was with that description? – I don’t know. (laughing) – Who do you think is hot? Alright.
– Just a minute. I’m gonna lampshade it
’cause there’s no way to get away with it ’cause
I’m still on camera. I’m a sweaty hog. – Little sweaty hog.
– Anyway, what were you saying? – Alright, yeah, let’s go around. This podcast is, I’m
essentially just wanting to make the thing I wish I had when
I was deep in the closet watching The O.C. and being
like I’m not anywhere on there. Although they did have a bi storyline. Do you guys remember that? Fucking–
– Oh, with Marissa?
– Yeah, Marissa had a girlfriend for a second.
– With 13 from House, and her name is Olivia Wilde. Thank you.
– Olivia Wilde. – [Jordan] Wow, you were right. – Yeah, yeah, yeah.
– I forgot she was on that show.
– I just been watching The O.C. so that’s why I know it. – And I remember when that happened, and I was like, that is
supposed to be including me, but I don’t feel included. (laughing) It was just like two hot Maxim models were starting to hookup, and I was like, still not.
– And then they lived together.
– That’s how all women should be though. – They lived together. Oh boy.
– That is how women should look.
– That’s how women should look and act, all.
– Yes, and act, all of them, demure. – [Ally] Demure. – That’s how I describe
everyone on The O.C. It’s very demure.
– Yeah, totally. – So off–
– Tanned! Great, okay, yeah. So, any story from being in the closet. Maybe that moment when you were like, wow, I might be gay. Or maybe it was like,
uh-oh, I might be gay. Or maybe it was like, yay, cool, I am gay. – I don’t know, but I
have been re-examining. I just was remembering. I went to a wedding of
one of my family friends, and I saw one of my cousin’s
friends that I hadn’t seen in awhile, and I was like, oh my goodness, I think when I was seven, I had a crush on this
woman, my cousin’s friend. I was digging down deep ’cause I was like, why would I always come
into my cousin’s house and be like, hey, is your
friend blah-blah here? And then he’d be like,
um, no she was only here that one time, and I’m
like, okay, whatever. (laughs)
– Was she cute now in real life? – It was Ellen DeGeneres.
– No, she’s just like– (laughing) I don’t even know ’cause it’s
weird ’cause she wasn’t even. She just like very much,
very older than me, and just was nice to me. And, unlike my cousin,
I was like, I don’t know why I cared, but I’ve just
been re-examining people from when I was little that– – Yeah. – And that’s a fun thing to
know ’cause I didn’t know I was into women, so I just was confused why I liked some people
more than other people. – I was very vocal about
crushes I had on guys, but they were all boiled
down to I want to be friends with them, but I was just like, oh, this is what we all talk about. So, I was like, yeah, I
definitely have a crush on Paul, and be like, no.
– Yes! I was trying to find,
’cause everyone was like, oh my type is blank blank, and I was like, my type is boys with mushroom haircuts. And I was like, that’s not a type, that’s a haircut! – You’re like, that’s a lesbian. – That’s not a cool haircut.
– That was my type though. Oh man. – Mushroom?
– Boys with, yeah. – That’s the bowl cut. – Yeah, oh god, I loved that. – Really? – Loved that.
– Really? – Loved that.
– Well, I guess that counts as a type. – Honestly, it’s all three
of the guys on Full House. No, not Full House, Home Improvement. – Home Improvement! – They all had that. Maybe they didn’t have
the mushroom haircut, but they were the kinda guy who might, and that was my type. The guy who might have a mushroom haircut. – I was never into the all-American look. – Really?
– Yeah. My first, do you remember? I forget what season of Real
World, but there was a guy named Willy who is one of
the first gay guys on it. – I don’t remember.
– And he was just, now looking back, he was
just a full Latin twink. – Really? – Nothing descript about
him, just Latin twink. – Hi!
– You can go to Weho and see 400 of him. – Oh my god. – And there was a scene
where he was making out with this guy in the shower,
and I was like, that is it. – Really?
– That’s all I want. And the guy was washing his hair. – Oh that’s great.
– And for years, I had a washing hair in the shower kinda thing.
– Oh my! Did you carry that with
you into adulthood? – I remember, yeah, in my
early 20’s when I was slutin’ it up, every sexual thing
that I wanted in my childhood, I did that. And then I was like,
okay, it’s not that sexy to shower.
– It’s full– – Sometimes it is, but mostly not. – Yeah, mostly showering
with someone sucks. – Yeah, it’s like–
– Who has a big enough shower to actually do that?
– Nobody. You do, I see.
– Guys, guys. (laughing)
– What? – You guys gotta come over. – I’ll kill you.
– Well, I have to fit 60 children in there. – I’ll kill you!
– Oh, that’s difficult, that’s difficult. – Yeah, I feel like I
heard something early on. You know like there’s just those twisted women’s magazines that are
like 10 tips to use his tie to chock him or. – Oh, the sexual ones.
– Yeah, those are fun. – Yeah, they’re like–
– 50 tongue tricks to make him go wild. – There’s always some extra element, like a full prop case. And there was one with essential oils that was like, use
essential oils on his ear. (laughing) Oh my god, okay, no no, sorry. It wasn’t a women’s magazine, it was fucking Men’s Health magazine. I would take my dad’s Men’s Healths, so it was like put essential
oils on her ear, and I… Nothing short of cutting that article out and was like, I’m gonna do this one day. – And do you do that to your lover every time you?
– This is the move, no. I dropped it also in my 20’s. – Oh yeah!
– Early 20’s, I was like, hey, ooh.
– You were essential oil behind every ear. – But then I got that out of my system. – There was a Vice magazine
article about how to fuck ass that I remember that I looked at. – Fuck ass!
– This is like early Vice when it was shitty, like
Gavin McInnes-era Vice. – [Ally] Oh my god, yeah. – [Jordan] Is it still like that? – Yeah, basically, Vice sucks. Can I say that? Am I allowed to say? No, I am not–
– In my opinion. – Not to slander the
company, in my opinion. Vice is–
– You can say whatever you want. Fucking Gavin McInnes is out there. – Yeah, Gavin McInnes.
– They might not be doing that anymore.
– Fuck Vice forever. – Spiritually, they are that. They will always be that. – The official shirt for
the Proud Boys is a fucking polo shirt that I’ve
owned for seven years. It’s a Fred Perry polo shirt that’s black with yellow markings, and
they’ve made that their official shirt, and I own it. And I was wearing it on the bus. – It’s queer erasure again. – Yeah! Not, right? Hear I am before erased.
– Everywhere you look. – And do a white man. Great, anything from you? Story deep in the closet? – I’ve told a lot of my stories from. I was thinking about this gay story. This is long after I
came out of the closet. Is that okay? – [Ally] Yes! – I was in my, I was 24,
and I got a call from a guy I had been sleeping with the year before. And he said, I’m just letting
people know I just tested HIV positive, you should
probably get tested. And at the time, I had a bad
rash on my cock and my balls. (laughing) – [Kimia] Okay. – And of course I get online
and that’s one of the symptoms of recent HIV.
– Anything, really. – Of anything! That is a pretty base symptom. – [Jordan] Of a thing. – I’d spun myself up into a real ladder.
– Of course. – Can you imagine?
– You’re not chill about your health. – Me being?
(laughing) So, I go and I’m freaking
out with my roommate, who says well we’ll both go. It’s a straight guy, but
it’s like we’ll both go in the clinic tomorrow,
we’ll both get tested, that’ll be just what we do with our afternoon.
– That’s sweet. – It’s great. My roommate, Nick Kocher,
who comedy fans may no. (laughing) We go into the clinic, and
you go in one-on-one with a counselor and they say, what’s going on? And I told them I have a rash
on my cock and on my balls. – [Kimia] You said that every time? – Yeah!
– That’s good. – Oh, the cock and ball rash. (laughing)
– Yeah, my cock has a rash on it, so do my balls. – You’re making a meal out of that. – I’m enjoying myself. And they said, okay great,
well we’ll get you tested and while you’re here, we’ll
get you into see a doctor. And so they do my testing, and then they take me to another room where I’d see a doctor. The doctor says you have, it’s a fungus. Here’s a cream for it, but
we could also load you up with a bunch of vaccinations
and stuff while you’re here. And I said, this is great. What a wonderful time I’ve
had at this free clinic. And I faint with needles. (laughs) I faint, Ally’s seen me with needles. I faint like… I just faint. – [Ally] We do a lot of drugs together. (laughing) – We’re IV drug users. So, I fainted, and they said
can we do anything for you? And I say, my friend’s out there, would you bring my friend back? Well, my friend got tested
then went back to the waiting room, and most people just
go in, get tested, and leave. So, I’ve been back there for an hour, where most people have
been for 20 minutes. So, my friend has now spun
himself up into a ladder, and they come out and say,
is Grant’s friend here? And he said, that’s me. And they said, could you come back here, he’s asking for you. – Aww.
– Awww! – He said, what’s wrong with him. And they said, well we
can’t tell you that, but he’s fainted, so he needs some help. – Oh my god!
– Fear. – And he comes back
and sort of wakes me up and says it’s going to be okay. And I said, no, no, no, I’m just a pussy. – [Ally] I’m fine. – So, he didn’t get tested? I thought the story ended in him getting HIV.
– Wouldn’t that be a good story?
– No! – ‘Cause straight guys
think they’re so immune to all STDs.
– Then I guess… – I love when straight guys get STDs.
– STDs in queer culture, or STIs, I guess, is
what they’re called now. – Who cares?
– It’s so fucked up. I feel like when I’m talked
to in a doctor’s office, it’s always women don’t
pass STIs is the vibe there. It’s all like who of your
partners has been with a man? Like that’s the only way
an STI could have gotten into this equation.
– Yeah, I know. – And it’s like–
– And they blame gay men for everything. – Do you feel that when you go in, they’re like, hmm, yeah, you probably do.
– I have gay doctors. Your story reminded me of a
story when I first moved to LA, I was at this doctor’s office
that only gay men went to, and now I go, they were horrible,
so I went to another one that only gay men go to. But my doctor was like–
– How did you find this, by the way? Is this like a Yelp thing?
– I think a friend had told me ’cause I was asking.
– It’s all word of mouth. – So, I was going to get
treated, and this is so gay man. But the boundaries are so
down that the doctor is like, so, you eat ass? – No! – And I was like excuse me?
– Oh yeah, I get that. – He’s like, you like eating ass? – And I’m like, don’t call it that. – What!
– For a doc– – They say ass? They don’t even say butt hole.
– He said do you eat ass. – [Kimia] They’re a doctor, they use– – What!
– My doctor asks about the rimming. Do you use rim?
– But rimming is more technical. – Putting the gas, yeah.
– Eating ass, to hear a doctor say eating ass. – What the fuck?
– Was so shocking. – Didn’t know doctors could do that. – That is so crazy. – Not but a week later, I
was standing on my balcony, and I hear Jordan, Jordan! And it’s the fucking doctor. – That’s great.
– And he’s like, I’m your neighbor! – No!
– So I stopped going to him. Six months later, Grindr everyday. Hey, hey, hey. – Oh no!
– Yes. – No! That’s awful. That is deeply dark,
honestly, like medical. Whenever I even step foot into a doctor, I’m putting so much trust
up there that I’m like, please don’t say–
– And them not doing that. And them not like… – [Jordan] And all he’s thinking
about is whether I eat ass or not.
– Yeah, exactly. Don’t hit on me!
– So do your job! – [Grant] So, Jordan, how do you eat ass? Are you good at it, or what do we– – I think I’m like… – That was me being the doctor.
– Oh, he was being the doctor. – I was being your doctor.
– We don’t need to know. (laughing)
– I don’t actually. – It really is–
– I mean, I’d like to know.
– That actually struck me to my core. I was like, am I good at it.
– He was ready to answer. – It was really sweet.
– We’ll talk, we’ll talk later.
– It used to be a thing I like was first thing
I ordered off the menu. But now I’ve calmed down
with it a little bit. – [Grant] I haven’t. – You love it.
– That’s a, that’s something–
– I feel like bi guys love eating ass. – [Grant] Love it, I love eating ass. – You love everything though, honestly, on this podcast.
– I do, I do. – We’ve been spent a little bit on everything.
– Yeah, the last time– – That you love. (laughing)
– Every podcast, some new thing I enjoy is gonna come out. – Bi guys wanna suck dick all day, and eat ass, and get fucked. – The last–
– Isn’t that most? What are we missing?
– No, I feel like bi, gay–
– Bi dudes wanna kiss. – Gay guys–
– And hug, and go to dinner, and get married maybe
one day, maybe have kids, all bi guys. – It’s different though
’cause with gay guys, it’s either I’m a top, but it’s just weird that bi guys–
– But isn’t that boring? – Yeah, you stay one thing the whole time? – Do you think so?
– Well, no, no, I don’t.
– I don’t know. – I think the point I’m trying to make is that a bi guy, because they
like women, then with men, they want things inside of them. – Oh!
– That’s what I’m saying. – You think that’s where they’re getting that.
– I think so many bi guys just wanna get fucked and play with dicks. – Interesting.
– Instead of getting their dicks sucked, instead of fucking. – Oh my god.
– The last time I was on this podcast, I told
a story about how I… Not a story, a fact
that I like sucking dick more than I like getting my dick sucked. And it’s come up again. – Sorry.
– Ally, it’s come up again. – Sounds like you got read, okay? You selfish bi guy. (laughing) – I’m used to it, that’s fine. You know what? More for me, sorry everybody. – And with women, you like fucking them. – Yes, but I don’t know what the… No, there are actually, there are a lot of alternatives. I was gonna say, don’t
know what the alternative would be.
– Yeah, I was like you’re a creative person.
– Yeah, but I’m also more of a top with guys. – Okay. – So?
– So. – My point, yeah.
– Okay. Broken, I think it is old and boring if someone’s like, I’m a top. I’m like, what are you, from the ’90s? What is going on? Everyone’s versatile.
– They have the tattoo, the–
– Yeah! Or just on dating apps
too where it’s like, I’m a top. And you’re like, please, don’t
bring that into my queer, beautiful relationship
where anything is possible. – Yeah. (laughing) – Yeah.
– Yeah! – Yeah! Alright, great, let’s move on. We here at Tales From the Closet, we like to get a little
bit scary mid-show, okay? And bring up what some
might call a trigger word, but really I just think
it’s a funny, spooky word. (laughing) Was that scary enough?
– I think triggering people is funny.
– Of a new show? – You said funny and spooky, so. – Funny and spooky, fooky. I’m truly so sorry. Okay, great, our word of the
day is straight hyphen acting. (thunder roars) I love it. Straight acting. So, yeah, this is just round table talk. What does that word mean to you? Where have you heard it used? Do you love it? Do you hate it? Is it growing on you? – It’s so growing on me. (laughing)
I love it. No, I feel like it’s,
I’ve had to unteach myself to take it as a compliment. For my whole life, if someone was like. – That’s interesting.
– I didn’t even know you were gay, I would just like, thank you. I’ll do anything for you. And now I’m like, oh, that’s bad. That’s me being ashamed of something. – Could be, yeah, could be, totally.
– Yeah, of course, and it’s like, I think… I’m actually, I like
talking to women about this because I believe all
homophobia is rooted in sexism. So, I think that’s why
gay men and trans women are killed and beaten the
most more than lesbians. – I would agree, yeah. – Because it’s the threat–
– And that’s where you meet the most hostility. – Yeah, it’s because it’s
the threat of femininity. It’s like you’re coming into their world and showing them that men aren’t just men. And that you can possess feminine things.
– Totally, yep. I agree, and I think straight acting… I think I’m just so sick
of everything queer being in reference to straight culture. So, then it’s like, ew,
get that lens off of me. Straight acting or not, I don’t know. I just don’t wanna hear that. But I know in gay male
culture, that’s something that you’ll see on dating apps and stuff. – Oh yeah, all the time.
– My brother has told me, straight acting.
– All over Grindr. Usually people don’t say it
in reference to themselves. They do sometimes, but it’s a lot of times what they’re looking for.
– What they’re searching for. – They’re looking for
a straight acting guy, or mask for mask. Which is so telling about, first of all, the kind of guy that they are. And also, two, you’re
shutting out so many hot guys. Even just as a strategy for getting laid.
– But a lot of the mask guys, they’ll have these
shoulders and these arms, and they’ll be like
brooding and then be like, so, I’m working in PR right now. And it’s like, well, you’re not. You’re not masculine.
– Yeah, that is not– – So, don’t pretend that you are when you’re not.
– In a photo, they are. – Yeah!
– Yeah, yeah! – That’s all that matters. – My outward appearance is masculine, and therefore I can have
all of the privilege that comes with it!
– Sure. Long as they don’t talk.
– But it is, yeah. – It’s so sad to see. I was at a gay club on
New Years Eve in London, and just like–
– Okay. (laughing) Okay.
– I’m not surprised anymore with that.
– Now I’ve ruined everything! (laughing)
Gay club! London! New Years Eve! (laughing) But it was so… Every time I go to a circuit
party thing like that, it makes me so sad ’cause I’m like, oh my god, all of you
have destroyed your bodies to look like this. You see these huge guys
with the worst back aches of the steroids, and it’s like, and they’re all clones of each other. And you’re just like, oh
your old self is gone. You’re never gonna get your old body back, and that is so sad just
to uphold this thing of masculinity. – Or even just like the
very cookie cutter look that you get in,
specifically gay male clubs. Lesbians have a similar
thing of a lesbian look. – Sure.
– It was like, have you guys been
watching the Marie Kondo thing on Netflix?
– No! – Fuck no. – Tidying Up?
– I won’t do it. – It’s so good! I only watched two episodes,
and I happened to choose the two gay couple epi–
– She’s a sociopath, right? – Yeah, she’s totally crazy.
– Fuck Vice, fuck Marie Kondo.
(screams) – No, but it’s good! But there was a gay guy on there, and you’re supposed to go
through all your clothes and touch them and if they bring you joy, you keep it.
– Oh, we know. – Everyone knows. – That’s the only thing I know about it.
– Yeah, that is the only thing.
– And you do categories. – All anyone needs to know. – She created one sentence. That’s all she does.
– Does it bring you joy? – Spark joy.
– ‘Cause otherwise it’s dust, right? I could have
figured out the rest of it. – But he’s picking up all
these clothes, and they’re all, and he was like, I don’t get
joy from any of these clothes. I’m really not getting the exercise. And all I was thinking was
that’s because you don’t want to dress like that. All of his clothes were very… – Gay.
– Very gay, and he looked at him and his
boyfriend dressed exactly the same, and I was like, ooh that’s because you’re a freak. And you wanna wear cool clothes. – Gay men suffer from
both having the male gaze and having the male gaze on them.
– Interesting, yeah>- So, gay men get toxic
masculinity from both ends. So, it is terribly damaging
to try and put yourself into the box that you think many would want.
– What are ways that you guys have been able
to get out from under that? – Just like–
– I’ll let you know when I do. – Just like it’s tough to figure out. – It’s just like trying
to find your deepest self. And the more you learn about yourself, the less you’re gonna want
to be like everyone else. – Yeah, totally. – I think that’s basic. The problem is, and
straight people have it too, it’s like no one knows who they are. And so they’re just doing what they think that they’re supposed to do as a gay man or a straight person or a lesbian. And the people that really
stand out in any culture are the people who just know who they are. – Yeah, totally.
– So, I don’t think it really has to do with being gay or straight or anything. No! No it doesn’t, okay? (laughing) – Well, I think… No, I completely get it,
which is why you see it so much more in young people. It’s people who are 22 are so fucked up. (laughing) – I see it so much in–
– But it’s straight and gay people, especially
too if it’s someone who’s recently out and recently an adult. Oh, that’s too much to
have to do all at once. That’s so hard! – [Ally] It was hard. – Yeah, I bet. I know, it must have been.
– It was very hard. – ‘Cause you came out right after college, right?
– Yeah, a little bit after, like 24, but yeah. – Oh wow.
– I think it’s like finding a more specific
identity than the gay identity. I think you can ride just
having the gay identity be yours or queer identity. – Which is great too.
– Which is, definitely spend time in there ’cause
you’ve been isolated for so long alone. So, it’s great to embrace that, but after that, you kinda
see the toxic things that it brings you and you’re
able to kinda shed that. – Well, you have to just
be aware ’cause I also get annoyed when people are
like, being gay is just a very small part of my life. – I hate that.
– And it’s like, okay, bitch. We get what you’re saying. (laughing) So, you have to find a balance of… It has to be, you can’t
be shying away from it because you’re ashamed of it. But if you’re genuinely,
my sexuality is one part of my life, that’s the goal. But if you’re just doing it
so you don’t seem too gay. – You see that a lot. – Toning yourself down. – And yeah, and it is
always a line of like, I don’t wanna be defined by my sexuality. It’s like, well, you’re
afraid of your sexuality. – It’s like people who are
like, I don’t wanna talk about politics. – What fucked up politics do you have? (laughing)
That you don’t wanna talk about it? – But then it’s also a little bit cultural because I’m Persian,
and Persian communities don’t talk about things
like sex and sexuality in general even if you are straight, even if you are married,
you don’t talk about what you do with your partner,
and that’s just not a thing anyone talks about. So, for me, I had a lot of
shame identifying in general anything sexually ever,
no matter what it was. So, that’s a weird thing to have.
– Same with Christianity. No sex at all talked about,
and so telling my parents I was into women just felt
like an inherently sexual thing I was bringing up. I was like, mom–
– It’s not about love. It’s about–
– Yeah, it was like, this is who I wanna have sex. But that’s not what I was saying. – No, it’s a love thing.
– But it just felt so explicit. I was like, ugh. – Right, and then that’s the other thing. It’s like back to talking
about how you had to dress, and clothes, and things
like that, I grew up having to go to Persian parties
where you have to wear dresses and straighten
your hair and put on makeup and all this stuff. And I was like, I never wanted to do it, and I kinda never did,
and I didn’t do it right. But my mom would be
embarrassed, and she’d be like, ugh, everybody’s talking about you. And you’re in a dress, but you didn’t do your hair.
– That sucks. – Whatever, and I was
like, that’s fine, mom. I feel better, I feel okay about it now, and I did go to a different… Gosh, I’m talking about so many weddings. I did go to a different wedding,
my other cousin’s wedding. And this was after my whole
family knew that I was queer, and they were like, oh! All texted me like are
you gonna wear a suit, this is a cool thing you
could wear whatever whatever, and then I showed up in
a dress and I felt like everybody was mad. (laughing) ‘Cause they were upset.
– You chose! – You’re gonna be so confused.
– You told us you were gay! – I contain multitudes, and
I like these gowns better than the suits I tried on. – Oh my god!
– And they were so, I thought you were gonna wear a suit.
– Just die, motherfucker. – What’s going on? I was like, okay, we’ll
I’m gonna do what I want. – I feel like they kinda were like, oh, when you came out, they were
like oh, it all makes sense. Like, oh, of course.
– Sure. They were like, yeah,
and then there was… ‘Cause that was happening when
I was talking to my friends in college about how I was dating a woman, and they would say stuff like that and I would sort of have a reaction like, what do you mean of course? And then I’m like, it’s
okay that they said that. It’s okay that they notice that I’m a little bit different.
– But it does suck– – But it’s a little bit like, when someone’s ever–
– What if they knew you better than you knew yourself? – Boo!
– It’s annoying. Yeah, don’t tell me you knew I was gay. – I was telling you something. Just go okay.
– Yeah, act surprised. – Yeah, I mean, I don’t know if I can–
– Or just say okay. – Act disappointed. (laughing)
Just don’t say you knew.
– Be ashamed of me. – Yeah, I have two lesbian sisters. – Oh, no way! – Oh boy.
– And my brother’s gay! – Oh really?
– Everyone in our family. – Yay!
– Oh my god! I love it. – Good for you guys, an only child. – Now it’s a sibling thing. – Only child.
– Everyone in all of our families. – Are you an only child?
– I have straight siblings. – Oh, so, yeah.
– Okay. – There’s the door.
(chuckles) So, what were you? – I just have memories of
my now, they go by sibling, but they would freak out and start shaking if they had to wear a dress. And it was like, what? And they weren’t out,
and so it was just like, what’s happening. They would have full panic
attacks just screaming and crying and like–
– Oh, we would have, where do they live? We (laughs) we would have a lot in common. – Yeah, and one of them had
no problem wearing a dress. And they’re twins, they’re twin lesbians. – Oh my god. – Ooh, sorry. – [Kimia] Well, I was never
afraid or upset by dresses, I just didn’t like being
told that I had to pick one. I just wanted to decide when I wore one. And now, ’cause I like dresses, I like all of the clothes equally, I do tend toward more in
between gender neutral clothes. But I guess, I don’t know actually. I dress however I am! (laughing) – Our colors are very similar.
– Our colors are on point. But a thing that my parents do
now is anytime I’m in a dress they make a point to be
like, oh, look at you. You look so good! And I’m like, I know that. (laughing)
You could say that in any other outfit, but they think–
– I picked this dress. – They think they’re reinforcing something when they’re kinda not, I would just wear this no matter what.
– They just think you’re ugly. – They don’t care that you’re gay.
– Absolutely not! – Absolute, fuck off. I hate it–
– I’m calling my mom and telling her you said that. (laughing) – Get your mom on the
phone right now, okay? That’s what this podcast is for. I hated wearing dresses, but, okay. So, my brother being gay growing up, we would always, we were also
very outside of our gender like, and so we would get presents, and it wasn’t until I was seven years old that we realized oh my god,
we’re each getting the presents the other one wants.
– The other one wants! – Oh, okay, I got you.
– So it became a whole thing that my mom, if we just said thank you and looked like we were
gonna keep the gift until the person left, then we could trade. – And that was between
you and your brother? – And my mom ’cause she got in on it ’cause she wanted us not to look rude. So, it would just be us
sitting in the living room and I’d be like, great, a
custom bracelet bead-making kit. Can’t wait. And he would be like,
great, Spawn action figures from the Underworld! I can’t wait, and it’d just be like, go away.
– I would have fought for that bracelet-making. – He loved it!
– I love bracelet-making kits. – Absolutely not, boring.
– I like them. – No, no thank you.
– Give me those Spawn underwear that you–
– I’m with you with Spawn. – My uncle took me on my 10th, young birthday, took me to FAL Shorts, and he was like, you could buy anything. Anything in the store. And everyone was like,
buy this huge thing, buy this huge thing. You can buy anything, and I
chose a Pocahontas barbie doll. – No way!
– And everyone was just like…
– This is so upsetting. – Fuck you. – This is a tale.
(laughing) This is a Tale From the Closet. – I can’t believe–
– This is a Tale From the Closet. – This is my personal hell.
– So mad at me. It wasn’t even like, I don’t even think they processed that. No, they did, they were like, that’s a pretty gay thing to do. But they’re also just like, fuck you. – No way!
– You chose the wrong. You’re not being good with money right now.
– Did you come out early? – Yeah.
– Was your family cool with it or was it like? – Well, it’s so funny ’cause–
– Out of three siblings. – Out of three siblings. – Who came out first? Who won? – I came out first.
– What? – I won. They came out way later than me, and they’re three years older than me. – Wow.
– The lesbians all come out in college or. That’s–
– It feels… – High school is not for lesbians. Maybe now.
– It’s also not for gay men. – Oh it is now.
– Oh, now– – Thank god for the times now. – Oh yeah.
– But I’m sure it’s still difficult. – But I–
– We’re not taking anything away from you or your feels, and we recognize your struggle so long as you recognize that
it’s not as hard as ours. (laughing)
That we’re stronger than you are. – I feel like Arkansas current
day, get at us, we’re sorry. (laughing) – I mean, I’m from Long Island, so it wasn’t the hardest
thing in the world. But I remember it was just such, everything happened so fast. From the first time I was like, I like that six pack. Within a week, I had come out. – No way!
– From literally like the first time.
– Good for you. – At end of 12. – Oh wow.
– Wow! – Yeah, like 13 or around 13th birthday. – [Ally] Wow! – But it was like, I came
out to all my camp friends. And then I gave this guy a
hand job at this moral party, and he famously pretended he
was possessed and threw up. – No!
– He was so ashamed.
– Wait what? – Yeah, I gave him a
hand job, he freaked out. – I like that you said famously. (laughing) You all know this part.
– You all heard, yeah. – Oh my god. Wait, at what kinda camp? – So, this was a nighttime
party at a house. We were at a day camp together. Yeah, he just started,
his eyes rolled back, and he started shaking up and down. And then went and threw
up, and just pretended to be possessed.
– That is nightmare! Fuck that guy!
– With my first sexual experience.
– That’s tough, that’s tough. – But I wondered why I’m so fucked up with sex.
– My god. – Why I need it for validation. – Toxic, oh my god. That’s crazy.
– But then, so I was aiming with my friends about it, and my sisters told my parents. – Wow.
– So, they came out for me.
– Of course. – Oh no.
– And I remember my dad was driving me to community theater, and he’s like, so, is it true? And I was like, yeah. (laughing) – Dad will think community
theater would be the tip off. (laughing) – And he was like, well,
the traditional Love, Simon. – Aww!
– Oh, I’ll love you, I’ll love you, whatever you are. And my mom was like so much more cool, but then I recently remember
one of the first things she said to me, she was like,
it’s okay that you’re gay. That’s fine, just don’t get a
gay voice and don’t get AIDs. – Oh dear.
– There it is! – Now I’m coming back to it, being like. – There it is, yep.
– Yeah. – Oh god, horrible. – And then I told her she said that, and I became the villain. (laughing) She was like, after
everything I’ve done for you. – Oh my god.
– I was so supportive. – That was though the first
thing my parents said. Not a gay voice, but
like, well be careful. – Yeah, which is valid. It was a different time.
– Yeah, that’s reasonable advice to give to a young gay person. – But it is also–
– Prep didn’t exist when I came out.
– My kids will be on prep when they are five years old. (laughing) – I wish there was a doctor who said that, we should just put prep in the water. We should put like, pour
Lipitor in the water. – Yeah, I mean the strides
for that are insane. – Yeah, insane.
– Have you guys ever seen the artist, fucking
Wojnarowicz, he’s Russian? – [Grant] I bet you’re saying it wrong. – I’m positive I am. – I bet that’s not–
– It’s like W-O-J, anyway.
– Oh, Banksy, Banksy. – Oh yeah, Banksy. He does this crazy thing with a balloon. It’s like longing. No, but anyway, David
Wojnarowicz or whatever, he’s a big, during the AIDs outbreak, he did a lot of political art. And he has the most heart wrenching, he does text over stuff,
and it’s just about… – Yeah, I know who, yeah, yeah.
– People dying, the government not
caring, and everyone just villainizing gay people during the ’90s. – May I touch you for this?
– Yeah. (laughing) – I recently, my friend came over, and she was like, we were
just talking about comedians. And they were like,
number one, Eddie Murphy. And I was like, yeah, sure. And she’s like, you have
to watch his first special. – [Grant] Oh, Raw? Oh, it’s so awful. – What? – It’s horrifying.
– What does he do? What does he do?
– He starts with a 10 minute rant about faggots and AIDs. And this is during–
– Oh, what’s the punchline? – Yeah, what’s–
– It’s just like, I’m not getting AIDs from no faggots. I don’t let faggots talk to me.
– That’s what I thought the punchline!
– I don’t let faggots touch me. I don’t let faggots go anywhere near me. You’re a faggot, you stay away from me.
– You’re kidding me. – It’s like a Kevin Hart special now. – 10 full minutes, and
this is when gay men were literally dropping dead like flies, and the audience is literally like, yes!
– They take it enough. – Goo goo, gah! Goo goo gah!
– The thought like it was catharsis for them to hear
how much you hate gay. It was so–
– It makes my heart race thinking about watching. – Yeah of course.
– Those old comedy specials.
– I think everyone should be required to watch that
’cause it’s so horrifying. – It’s out there.
– Watch that and then watch How to Survive a
Plague, the documentary from a couple years ago. Listen, kids, know your history. – Yeah, that’s the thing,
you feel there’s something weird hanging in the air,
and that’s because there is. These people are still alive,
it wasn’t that long ago that that was completely considered okay. – And then you’ll meet
a 60 year old gay guy, and he’s like, yes, everyone
I knew in my 20’s has died. All of my friends have died.
– And it’s like when people get cancer, they’re not like, well you shouldn’t have done this. With AIDs, it was like, that’s your fault. This is all your fault, you’ve created this monster.
– You deserve it, yeah. – You deserve it, and like any
other disease, they’re like, bless you, I’m so sorry for you. I hope everything’s okay. – Yeah, and this they’re like. (laughing) Walk away.
– Got what’s coming to you. – Spooky. – Spooky! Straight acting! – That’s spooky.
– And that’s the straight acting category? – Well, I love the tangents that we go on. There’s no wrong can–
– I could talk about AIDs forever.
– It’s like a– – What do you guys?
– Where are now versus. – Do you guys feel the
presence of the AIDs epidemic in gay male culture now? – I feel… Well, I personally do. I just think about it all
the time ’cause I would have been dead. – Oh just like I think about the Holocaust.
– I’m an artist, I’m a cool person. (laughing) Everyone that was cool died. – Fran Lebowitz has a
great line, it’s like, we lost a generation of people with good taste.
– With good taste! – All the cool gay men died.
– I’ve watched that. That was great. – It was such a shitty thing to say, but it’s true.
– But it is true. – True, but shitty.
– One of my film’s talks about that. (chuckles) – I mean even just a
difference in my relationship to sex pre-prep versus post-prep is… – [Jordan] You’re bare
backing your life away. – And there are problems with that. Otherwise, we’ll get into off there. But, it is… Gay sex is equated with death
for gay men specifically. Gay people, but gay men specifically at this point in history,
and that is deeply damaging. – Yes, yeah, do you feel like that… When, I don’t know, is it
like when people are around, do you guys all talk about it? Isn’t that scary that that could happen? Or are we to a point where
that’s not really on the table anymore and you feel safe?
– I think it’s not in a bad way where it’s like people are so, prep is such a lifesaver
and people are just doing whatever they want that it’s like… It’s almost a little disrespectful
to the older generation how flippant we are about sex. And it’s unfair to talk
about it so loosely when they’re too old now
to get the pussy that they once could, for lack of a better word. So, they’re not having the
sex they could have had, and they didn’t get to have
the sex that they wanted because of AIDs.
– Yeah, it’s hard. – So, it’s like, I can’t
imagine what it’s like for a 75 year old to
look at us and be like, oh great, I was… It’s not fair. I missed my–
– They must think that left out. I was just lecturing
high school students now about how easy they have it. – Exactly the same thing.
– But a 75 year old, they must think that all the time.
– Don’t have survivor’s guilt. Live your life, but do you feel safe? Would you say? – Yeah.
– I do. – I do.
– That’s great. – I do feel safe. I certainly have sex like I feel safe, so I definitely feel safe. – Can gay men still not donate blood? – That is–
– I lie. – Is that still a thing?
– Yes, that is still. – It’s still on the form? Like it can happen?
– If you’ve ever had sex with a man, you can’t. – Isn’t that insane? – It’s crazy.
– That feels crazy. – What a weird, old vestige
jove of a time gone by. – I know, I know. – The last time I gave
blood was in high school, and it would still be a decade until I had sex.
– I don’t think it’s for women though.
– No, yeah, yeah, it was fine. – I give blood all the time. – Really?
– It’s one of my favorite things to do. – Every morning.
– Are you serious? – It is, I do, I do. – Where?
– I give blood all the time at the UCLA, Blood and Plasma Center. I went to UCLA.
– Wait I love you. – Yes, and I used to do this in college, and I still go now
anytime I have a free day, I’ll make an appointment and go. And I do platelets and that takes an hour and there’s a TV and you can watch a movie while you’re saving a life.
– What? – Have you ever gotten paid for a plasma? – Oh, no, if you are
UCLA employee, you could, but I get paid in movie tickets. Four tickets to the AMC every time I donate blood.
– No way! – That’s worth more than plasma. – And you get a free
cookie and orange juice, and sometimes there’s sandwiches there. – What? – It’s great.
– Four free tickets to the movie? – That’s for platelets,
you get two for just blood. – [Grant] It’s a good way
to feel like you’re giving to charity without losing any money. It’s amazing.
– Gaining movie tickets. I never go to the movies. – I faint though, so that’s not– – Yeah, you wouldn’t be able to do it. – I faint all the time,
and I have sex with men. – We are gonna move on to my
favorite part of this show, which are questions submitted by viewers. – I love it.
– Some people identify themselves and their age. Some people asked anonymously. We’ve talked about maybe
uploading this podcast under another name like NFL Breakdown. – To get more viewers?
– Or something so that closeted people could download it and have it on their phone.
– Got you, got you, got you. – I have a friend who lived
in India three years ago, and she said, ’cause it
was illegal to gay there until so recently. To get in with the
lesbians that lived there, you had to be noticed,
and then someone would give you an email and
you would email them. They would have you meet
at a secret location and vet you and then you could get invited to the gay stuff.
– I meet with cool gays now. – It’s so fabulous and
so dark at the same time. – That’s what I was thinking.
– It’s dark. It’s dark, but it is fabulous.
– It’s bad but–
– Anyway, shout out India. (laughing) Okay, our first question. (thunder roars) (laughing) – That one took me by surprise. – I was like, we are gonna die. That one I love.
– It was good. – It was genuinely scary.
– I love all of them. – And now it’s raining. – And we’re all soaking wet. Alright, “Did you have
many LGBTQ friends when you “were discovering yourself? “Do you have any tips on
meeting new queer friends, “especially as a teen?” This is from someone named Noah, age 15. – Aw, I love him. – Okay.
– Just the name, I know exactly what he looks like. – Shout out, hi Noah.
– Shout out Noah. (laughs) I thought he was gonna say,
did you have gay friends when you were discovered. (laughing)
– When you personally were discovered. – I’ll fucking let you know. Well, that, I guess I’m
confused a little bit about the language, so I’ll answer twice because there’s… When you were discovering
yourself versus when you were coming out, I think are sort of two different times.
– Yeah, did you have queer friends when you were first
realizing that you were gay? And do you have tips on
meeting new queer friends as a teen? – Can I say something like I don’t. – Yeah.
– Yeah, that’s helpful. – Yeah, I felt like I
had this pressure to, ’cause there were so few
gay people around me, to be best friends with
them, and I hated them. And they were also the only
people I could have sex with. So, I was like, I hated
the people I had sex with. I hated the people I was around. And I was like, I wished I
had just stuck to my girls. And then when I met queer, when I was like 21, I found
my first group of gay friends, and I was like, yes, this is
what I’ve been waiting for. These are like my new people. So, I don’t feel like you need to like… I think now it’s a lot easier
’cause you can seek out people who have the same
interests as you online and stuff. But don’t look for gay people just because they’re gay because… – Don’t lower your standards.
– Lower your standards, yeah.
– In that way, yeah. – Stick true to the people you
actually wanna hang out with, the gay people will come. You’re gonna find them
when you move to a city. – This might not be universal,
but what worked for me is moving to a city. It’s being in a place where
there are a lot of other gay people. Yeah, when I was coming out
to myself when I was a teen, I was at a Catholic School in Ohio. I didn’t know any other gay people. Turns out I did, but at
the time, they weren’t out. – Well, yeah, that’s
the thing, out people. – Then when I was coming
out, I did it in college. I was in acting school,
I only knew gay people. And so that’s not a… A helpful tip for a 15 year
old isn’t move to a city. – Yeah, true.
– That’s not a helpful thing, Noah. Similar to what you were saying, at 15, I think it’s more
important that your friends be good friends rather
than be gay friends. Be open and honest with
the friends you have now. – Yeah, the characteristics
that you want in a friend don’t start and end with gay. – Sure.
– It’s like honest, and supportive, and kind. Look for those people, not just gay people.
– And there’s so many, I even as an adult have
people I consider friends that I’ve never met. Like I’m just Instagram friends with, and we always comment back, and I’m like, oh that’s my friend. So, it’s like you can find people. If you need an outlet to talk
about your gay experience, you can find it online.
– Find that online. Find that online, and then
you’re friends in real life, let those friends be… Other traits can take
precedence over shared sexuality at 15. – [Jordan] Even though
that’s all you think about when you’re 15. – Oh, god, oh yeah.
– Yeah, the follow-up to this, he also asked,
“Could you talk about “how to meet other queer
people if you’re not big “in the party or clubbing scene.” – At 15?
– Okay, well I don’t– – Oh, no, sorry, this is Pierce. This is someone else.
– Oh, okay! – I don’t party and I don’t go to clubs, but I also don’t, I guess,
don’t go out and seek specifically queer friends. I just like to find friends
that like to do the same things I do, and I don’t
know if this is advice, but it’s just like, because
it doesn’t answer the question about finding specifically queer people. But I did just make friends
doing improv and sketch and I also did theater in high school, and all those people were very supportive. And actually a lot of my
friends in high school that were not queer in high school now are like, hmm, I think I am. I think I am, so it’s just do the things that you like and you will find friends that will support you
– I think so too. If you’re like into books or something, hang out at the bookstore in your town. – With the losers?
– I’m trying to think of… Yeah, get out of here.
– Oh my gosh, I need to leave. It’s everything– – Very good advice for young lesbians that hang out at the bookstore. – Oh, I’m just saying! If you’re in a smaller
town, go to the things that your town has to offer. And meet people there.
– Go to the queer section and just like be like looking obvious. – Who me?
– Sure. – And I think that is the thing. ‘Cause you don’t have to be
into partying and clubbing to make friends, but you
do have to actively pursue the interests you do have. – [Group] Yes! – If partying and clubbing
aren’t your thing, what is your thing? And then go out to it
because I think sometimes partying and clubbing can
be code for I’m introverted and don’t like to talk to people.
– And don’t wanna be social. – And it’s tough to find
new friends if you don’t put yourself out there. You don’t have to be into
partying and clubbing, you can do plays.
– Book club. – Yeah, join one of those–
– I do think the, just do a quick scan on yourself
and see if there’s a way that you could be braver
and put yourself out there a little bit more. It doesn’t have to be
at some all-night rave, but yeah.
– And no one’s like actually making friends at a club. – I completely agree.
– I have never– – [Jordan] I’ve never met someone at a club.
– I can’t imagine how you were.
– Gay parties can be very over. Like, when I first came
out, I went to gay bars, and it was just so
booming Lady GaGa music. And I was like maybe this isn’t my tribe. You know? It was just like, oh no, I’ve made a mistake.
– It wasn’t ’til I started going to house parties and– – Finally meeting and talking to people.
– Talking to people. – Where the volume is low enough that you can have a conversation. Yeah, put yourself, actively
pursue your interests. And that’s how to make
friends gay or straight. – True.
– Yeah, just how to make friends in general.
– Just like– – Or do a video podcast. Go to College Humor. – Yeah, come and be on this podcast. – We’re fun. – Alright, great, next question, “I am a queer woman who
has been out personally “for about two years, but I
recently started a new job “as a kindergarten special
ed teacher in the Bronx. “Part of the reason I went
into education was to afford “young kids a safe space to
explore their identities. “Unfortunately, my school
is not the most accepting “environment, and I feel
myself tiptoeing back into “the closet when I’m there. “This makes me feel guilty
and kind of embarrassed. “How do you cope with coming
out slash being at work “when you suspect it’s putting
you under a higher level “of scrutiny? “Is it ever worth it to
just come, or just to keep “this stuff to yourself?” – No.
– Oh, that’s so tough. That was long and I
felt every word of that. – Long (laughs) right?
– It was like, I don’t have any good advice for that. And that’s the thing that
I did for a long time, not in a workplace, but to my parents. I was just, to my friends and everybody, I was like, yes, I am who I am. I’m queer, but then
it’s like to my parents, I’d be like, I just walked
out with miss one thing ’cause they don’t ask anyway. It doesn’t matter. And it felt worse, and
then the longer you do it, it feels like you’ll never get out of it. So, it does feel better
to decide to do it, and then this is the thing
that my uncle told me. If somebody will just
judge you just because of that one thing, then
you don’t need them to like you anyway. And they can come back
when they can decide that that’s okay because it’s
not a big thing about you, so.
– Totally. – But I think it’s so, I think she actually
needs to leave this job because I think it’s so
rare for anyone to know why they’re doing their job, and she knows why she’s doing her job. – Wow! Yeah!
– And she’s like, I want to work with kids’ identities, and I am a firm believer
that you can actually do whatever you want in this life. And so she needs to be looking for schools that are aligned with her interests. – But I think that space needs her ’cause what if some kids
there are also suppressed by that environment of the school maybe? – True.
– I think so, but I think it’s like… Yeah, that’s the question of
putting your own happiness first or second.
– Yeah, I guess we don’t know what specifically is happening.
– And to that, I guess I’d say, because I agree, that you could do a lot of good. But then you have to do it. – Yeah, then you have to do it. It’s a scary thing. – If that’s why you’re there,
then you have a responsibility to yourself and to the kids
around you to do the thing. And I’m not saying there
aren’t legitimate reasons that you can’t. – Yeah, she does say in
parentheses, “No, I don’t feel “my job is at risk, but
I worry folks would read “an agenda into my teaching
or push back against “the gender neutral and explorative space “I’m trying to build.” – Well, you do have an agenda. It sounds like you do have an agenda.
– Oh, well, agenda in quotes in that creepy, gay-focused way.
– Yeah, she just wants people to be who they
are and how they are, instead of just making them into gays. – Yeah, right, yeah.
– But it is true– – You get it, right, Grant? – I make kids into gays all the time. I hated the way that sounded. (laughing)
– It was unfortunate. – It just depends, and this
is such a point of view thing about how you see the world,
but if she wants to live in her utopia, then
there’s a way to do it. And if she wants to live to
help and struggle and fight, then there’s a way to do that too. And I don’t think one is worse
or better than the other. I don’t think if you’re like,
I wanna help who I wanna help in the way I wanna
help, I don’t think you’re a bad person for doing that. But all for you if you’re
gonna go into these spaces that are not
accepting and try to make a difference from within.
– You know what I found helpful with that? Is that… Have you guys ever done the Artist’s Way. You write three pages at
the top of every morning, just non-stop.
– Yeah, some real Marie Kondo shit. – It’s not!
– It’s not, it’s different.~ – No, it’s messy, it’s free!
– You don’t get rid of anything! – Fuck Artists Way, fuck Vice, fuck Marie Kondo.
– What I’m gonna say is if you’re writing three pages every day, I think it would help
her track what she wants and what she’s getting in this
situation a little bit more. ‘Cause when it comes to a
job, that’s a huge choice. – It’s a life.
– Give yourself a year. Give yourself two years to
decide what you’re gonna do with it, feel it out a little bit more. I’m not gonna be like, stop
being a kindergarten teacher in the Bronx, like quit. Take time, figure it out.
– If you stay, stay with the, and try
to achieve that purpose. But right now it’s just costing you, and you’re not getting the benefit you were hoping for.
– And she’s also, there is part of this that
she is presuming negativity before there is actually negativity there. So, like–
– Well, you do that when you’re scared too. – Totally.
– So, I mean, try it one way and if those
things that are perceived are real, then it’s time to reconsider. – Yes, alright, final question, “How do you handle not
feeling queer enough? “For example, I’m an out
and proud cis bisexual woman “dating a cis bisexual
man, which means folks “often assume that we’re straight. “And I hate when people
think that either of us “have chosen a side because
we’re with each other.” – Yeah, you get that a lot. As a bi person, there’s a… If you’re just out grocery
shopping and you see a couple and it’s a man and woman,
you naturally presume that well, there’s a straight couple. I don’t think there’s anything
wrong with that presumption. How do you then more outwardly
demonstrate your queerness to let yourself be part of the community? Well, that’s a good question. – [Ally] Right? – And I’m a comedian, so
I don’t necessarily have a terrific answer.
– Rainbow flags. – Rainbow flags everywhere.
– I don’t know, I think there’s a problem with the… Oh, not a problem, but
just having the feeling or the need to feel
like, but it’s something that we’ve put on. To be gay enough is a
thing that is not real. You just are who and how you are, and so–
– But it is real. – But it is real, what do you mean? (laughing)
I mean being gay enough is real?
– Yeah, those pressures are real. – No, I know the pressures are real, but the concept of being gay enough is not real.
– Is not real, exactly. Exactly.
– There is no gay enough moment. – Right.
– Yeah. – [Kimia] It’s not real. (laughing) – Well, I do agree. – I don’t know.
– I do think wanting to be perceived, it does
kinda sound like maybe they have friends who are like, oh
good, you’ve picked a side. I think that kind of
thinking of picking a side and not being allowed to feel free. – I understand this feel. When I’m with a woman, it
does feel like I need to… I do feel like I need to
name myself more often because, A, so that I
feel like I still belong to that community, and B,
’cause it’s good to be out and for the world to have more out people. – And you just wanna be understood. – Yeah, that’s it.
– You wanna be seen for who you are. – So, I guess just be out to
as many people as you can be. Be loud about your queerness. – I would be interested in this, I feel like maybe we’ll come
back to this in another show because I want more, I feel
like I have some friends who are queer and just ended
up in a straight relationship after and I wonder what that feels like. Oh, now, you’re. Now you’re dating a straight
guy or now you’re dating a straight girl. Do you feel like some
of you has been lost? That’s really interesting. Like what’s doing that? – Bi is such a complicated
thing because if you’re not in an open relationship, I
feel like I would feel like I’m missing a part of my
sexuality by not being able to express both of the things. – Well, maybe that’s just
because you’re very gay. (laughing) I feel like you find everything
in both genders, really. – If it is just about the
person, yeah, but it’s not always like that. – I think she should break
up with her boyfriend and date a woman.
– Date you. – Just on principle. Yeah, date me.
(laughing) – Great, well, thank
you so much for sending in questions, everybody. And thank you so much to you guys. – Oh, thank you.
– It was good to have you. – Thank you guys.
– Thank you, Ally. – I love all of you.
– This was fun. – Thank you for coming in. – We’re gonna have a big bi orgy now. – Yeah.
– Fantastic. – You have to, I’m sorry.
– Okay. – You signed, you signed.
– Anyway, thank you so much, you guys. We will see you when our next
podcast, vodcast comes out. Please, hit us up on the Discord. Grant and I are both definitely on there. Send us questions and
yeah, get involved in that talk that’s going on there. Thanks so much, have a great week.